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Opuim for the masses

Jesus never made the evolution jump past death. Down with god.

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By Hell you mean the center

By Hell you mean the center of the Earth where there is magma and hot molten iron? Oh, yeah, I don't think there are any demons down there.

Let's keep things scientific, here, dingbat.

So sorry for you...

That you believe in Pagan ideas injected into the Christian Bible for the sake of recruiting non-believers. You see, HELL does not appear in the original Greek and Latin texts i.e. the Bible. It was used to replace numerous other words from the original texts, none of which meant hell, hundreds of years after the fact. Hell has been part of pagan and non-Christian beliefs for thousands of years before even Judaism even existed, much less Christianity. Your living a lie baby!

Do you actually READ the Bible?

Wow. Awesome. I'm pretty sure that no one saw it. He was in the tomb, after all. They saw the stone rolled away, and a few people saw him afterward, then he left, ne'er to return (even though the Second Coming is always just around the corner). No one saw him rise. Read your own book.

dummy

Have YOU ever read the Bible? Or are you pretty sure it said that because someone you know told you about it on his blog he wrote while he was drunk?

Luke 24, he appears to multiple people including his disciples.
John 20-21, he appears to his disciples.
Matthew 28, Roman Guards report on his resurrection.
Acts 1:1-10, Jesus is kickin' it for forty days.

That would be pretty convincing evidence if you take it to be true. Even if it's not you're wrong about what the Bible says, which was the basis of your comment.

pwnd

Pretty Sure...

That what he meant was that no one actually saw him rise from the dead.

Obvious logical fallacy

Petitio Principii (begging the question).

* The conclusion of an argument is contained in one of the premises assumed.
* Assuming the truth of one's proposal as a premise for the conclusion one is trying to prove.

In your case, unless the person you are adressing is prepared to accept your assumptions:

1. That the bible is a reliable, accurate account of actual historical events.
2. Jesus, as described in the bible, was an actual historical figure.
3. Jesus actually rose from the dead (I think if you actually READ it, you'll find that the different accounts in the bible vary quite widely on some of the details on this matter http://www.ffrf.org/books/lfif/?t=stone ).
4. There is a Hell.

Your post proves exactly nothing, contains no compelling arguments, and does nothing but prove that you don't understand the basic rules of logical argument.

If you're interested in learning more about how to argue properly and convincingly, here is a handy summary of what NOT to do:

http://education.gsu.edu/spehar/FOCUS/EdPsy/misc/Fallacies.htm

Stop trying to post and Google plz

Goedel. Incompleteness Theorem. Bam.

Seriously, you don't know what you are talking about if you say God doesn't exist. The Incompleteness Theorem states that for any known system there is one true unprovable fact. So basically, everything SCIENCE has proven about anything (real number system, quantum theory, the size of your underwear) all hinges on something that you will never, ever be able to prove exists....sounds a little like a God, doesn't it?

I put this up here to try to make things easier for the idiot atheists who want to make circular arguments (i.e. the "make a bigass rock/lift a bigass rock" one). If you feel in for some lulz, please scroll on down. Have a nice day.

I found this hilarious to

I found this hilarious to read. I never knew religious types had now stooped to the apparent "low level" of atheists and have begun to use theories. I mean come on, one of the closing arguments most religious people throw at me is that just about everything scientific is a theory and thusly it is "idiotic" to run our lives on a theory. So I'm hapy to see that you guys can also be just as "idiotic" ;].

That theory sounds so similar to the Antological argument that it's really making me giggle. A theory is a theory and in the mind of the person who has the theory it can be true as far as they are concerned. However this is the wonderful difference between The god fearing people of the world and the Atheists/Scientists of the world. Unlike you guys, if our theory is proven wrong, we don't lose our heads about it. If god came down to earth tomorrow and announced his existence, I would very happily accept that. However if somehow we managed to show that we actually have evolved from more primitive versions of ourselves (which we more or less have but because of the small descrepencies, we apparently haven't) I bet you any money that the religious people of the world would actually have no idea what to do with themselves.

Thanks for you time.

the amazingly stupidness

the amazingly stupidness theorem states that of all theorem one must be declaired the stupidest.

Isn't it a bit of a leap to

Isn't it a bit of a leap to say that the "one true unknowable fact" is your God?
(For the following, I have assumed that you are Christian because of your use of the word "God" with a capital G. If not substitute the name of whatever prophet you follow for "Jesus" The name of your holy book for "Bible", and the name of your particular faith for "Christians", my message should survive intact).

To accuse atheists of circular logic is to ignore the elephant in your room, common to all Christians:

"I know that Jesus loves me because the bible tells me so..."

The only evidence for the validity of christianity over other religions rests on the assumption of the divine inspiration, and therefore the authority and validity of the Bible, without that you have nothing to elevate your beliefs over any others.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, you are postulating that your god exists, not some nebulous deist concept of a supreme being. The burden of proof, as ever, rests on the one making the assertion, NOT on the person saying that their assertion is wrong.

So. One day there was

So. One day there was nothing. Then bam...from NO OUTSIDE INFLUENCE the "Big Bang" happened. (Order out of Chaos) How can people who believe in Science believe in Evolution? If people believe that the second law of thermodynamics is true...then how can the Big Bang theory even be possible? Even observations of history have shown that you can't get something out of nothing. And you most certainly can not get order out of disorder without the outside influence of someone (or something) intervening. The chances of something like the big bang happening are ASTRONOMICAL. I personally believe that it takes more of a leap of faith to believe we evolved from single-celled organisms than to believe that SOMEONE or SOMETHING much bigger than us actually stepped in and brought the universe into existence and so forth.

"The chances of something

"The chances of something like the big bang happening are ASTRONOMICAL."

as opposed to what exactly?

Basically...

"So. One day there was nothing." (I haven't heard this ever stated in Big Bang Theory. Maybe you'd like to read the part of the theorem which postulates that the Universe is in perpetual motion, expoloding out from a point, then expanding at a slower and slower rate until it starts contracting back (due to the internal forces acting within it) to a singular point again and so on. That you assume there was nothing in the first place sounds very biblical to me).

"Then bam...from NO OUTSIDE INFLUENCE the "Big Bang" happened." (You are using a premise of the argument you are trying to disprove as the premise OF YOUR OWN ALTERNATIVE ARGUMENT.)

"The chances of something like the big bang happening are ASTRONOMICAL." (This is patently ridiculous! What you are saying here is - The chances of us being here are so huge that therefore something greater than me must have put it into motion (still using the above premise as basis btw). I am here therefore something something greatethan me exists. If I win the lottery (chances of 13,983,816 to be exact for a 49 ball lottery. To put these odds in context, suppose I buy one lottery ticket per week. 13,983,816 weeks is roughly 269,000 years. In the quarter-million years of play, I could expect to win the jackpot once.) I could say that those odds are so huge that only if ducks could talk could I have won it. People win the lottery all the time and they could all say it was because divine intervention or lucky numbers or something. It doesn't change the fact that, in probability, whatever the odds are, it can still happen. Assuming your premises, if the odds of The Big Bang happening was 0, and it happened, then maybe you'd have someting to go on. In an infinite universe (or infinite nothing), if something can happen, it will happen.)

I personally believe it takes more of a leap of faith to put your own beliefs to the test than to fall back on them as the foundation of challenging the ones you can't accept.

Oh, Please

Ockham's Razor. Which presumes the most things? That the universe was created by some invisible man in the sky (and how was HE created?), or that the universe was originated from a hyperdense point of matter that expanded forcefully? The former requires even more questions, since if the big bang can't have happened out of nothing, then how did God happen out of nothing?

chill

www.tinkerbellcottontoes.com

Thatll sort the men from the boys, its just what you all need to read.....

God can create a stone so

God can create a stone so heavy even he can't lift it ?

1. If God is omnipotent, the He can do anything
2. Therefore, God can create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it.
3. But if He cannot life it, then He is not omnipotent.
4. Likewise, if He cannot create such a rock, he is not omnipotent.
5. Therefore, God cannot be omnipotent

LOL. This is the kind of

LOL. This is the kind of logic taught in grade school.
Please come up with more intelligent rebuttal.

Preemptive: typo - so don't

Preemptive: typo - so don't even bother.

"LOL. This is the kind of

"LOL. This is the kind of logic taught in grade school."

Exactly, which makes you a complete idiot for not being able to deduce that yourself. You just kind of showed how dumb you are, rather than insulting the person who's trying to help you by proving god is not omnipotent. Of course you'll keep right on believing, because you're stubborn and weak and have to rely on some magical big man in the sky to help you get through your life.

Stand in a room. Walk half

Stand in a room. Walk half the distance to a wall. Then halve it again. And again. Will you ever reach the wall? Pure logic says no, but most people who can move beyond an 8th grade understanding of the world get the point of this story.

Statements that include self-contradictions are only made by idiots who don't understand the meaning of the words that come out of their mouths.

If God is omnipotent, he can create a rock He cannot lift.
If God is omnipotent, He can also lift the rock.
It's called increasing force; maybe He cannot lift the rock the instant He creates it (in order to justify the statement) but what stops Him from being able to lift it later? He is OMNIPOTENT after all, as you pointed out.
And if you want to make the two statements simultaneous, well, He's done that before: you know, the whole being-on-earth-as-a-man-and-also-being-God-in-heaven-and-also-the-Holy-Spirit-thing.

For you sophomore philosophers out there, go read up on Goedel and the Incompleteness Theorem. Then think about what the implications of "one true but unprovable statement" could mean for after you die.

and for the "you're stubborn and weak and have to rely on some magical big man in the sky to help you get through your life." anyone who has fucked up in life knows God helps those who help themselves.

I do like your application

I do like your application of Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem. It really is novel. Completely illogical of course, but novel none the less. Just like escalators in gyms.

The theorem does say approximately what you make it out to say, but how exactly do you justify that impressive leap to the unprovable element being god? There is simply no justification for that. I could equally say that the unprovable element that everything is based on is that god does in fact not exist, and my statement would be equally valid. In fact it would be more valid, seeing as the statement "god does exist" is, if correct, provable, where as the statement "god does not exist" is not provable, and so the latter fits Godel's Theorem better.

Your argument against the bolder paradox is a rather weak attack on the semantics of it. If i were to reword the paradox that he is unable to lift the bolder at any time, place, or under any circumstance what so ever, it would still hold true. You get very wafflely when you come to the idea of doing both the creation and lifting at the same time, and you must recognize that your argument doesn't hold water against your own argument either.

Just because God CAN DO

Just because God CAN DO SOMETHING does NOT mean he will do it. God could fix all of our problems in this world right now if He SO WILLED IT TO BE. But He would rather we give honor and glory to Him and await the day when there won't be any more suffering for those who He has had mercy on.

If god could fix all our

If god could fix all our problems right now but chooses not to I think he's a completely mean asshole! Funny how religions believe a book thousands of years old that has been translated through several languages when you can't even rely on the words of a daily newspaper.

Can you say something that

Can you say something that will make you supid?
If not, yo're not smart so yo're stupid.
If yes, well that prooves what we already know... you're stupid.

WTF? Are you retarded?

WTF? Are you retarded?

hahaha, you just proved my

hahaha, you just proved my point

He proved nothing. He did

He proved nothing. He did ask a valid question though. Are you, infact, retarded?

Um, it's actually impossible

Um, it's actually impossible to say something that will 'make you stupid', unless it somehow destroys part of your brain when you say it or inhibits your mental reasoning, therefore lowering your mental capacity, making you stupid. If you come up with such a thing, you would be very clever indeed, unless you were to say said thing, which would cause you to then become stupid.

Jesus, man, think a bit before you say stuff - on the Internets, of all places, where anyone can see what you've written - that'll make you seem (note usage of 'seem') stupid.

So what you are saying is

So what you are saying is there is no such thing as omnipotence?

I think trying to comprehend

I think trying to comprehend omnipotence would be like trying to comprehend eternity. We know the meaning of the word, we can come up with examples (i.e. a million years++), but to actually ever truly understand? Impossible.

Foolishness.

Such circular "learned logic" is pablum. The premise is fundamentally flawed, the point is moot, and thus immediately subject to dismissal. He can merely speak the rock into existence, and immediately state that it be moved. Just as He created the Universe, and set it into motion. Not by His might, not by His power, but by His Spirit.

"Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." - 1 Corinthians 1:25, the Infallible Holy Word of God.

Now consider just being silent, lest you again sound like a moron.

Aww. It's so cute when

Aww. It's so cute when children learn big words.

Now please argue on a level that doesn't involve spouting verses. Haven't you learned by now that you can't debate with a non-believer by shoving a bunch of biblespeak down their throat and hoping it chokes them into agreeing with you?

Yes, He can speak the rock into existence, and also move it. That much seems to prove your point, nevermind the fact that none of us have seen this happen. But is He able to consciously create a rock so heavy that He genuinely cannot move it? We humans can create things so heavy that we can't lift them, but we're not claiming omnipotence here.

Yes, it's circular logic, however it points out a vital flaw in this concept of omnipotence. As responsible believers, we should address it and consider it, instead of plugging our ears and going "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU. Let me distract you with something the old men in the desert wrote!"

Such circular "learned

Such circular "learned logic" is pablum. The premise is fundamentally flawed, the point is moot, and thus immediately subject to dismissal.

Please point to the premise in the above argument. (Hint: there isn't one, there are only "if ... then ..." statements.)

Please point to the "circular logic" in the above argument. (Hint: there isn't any, as circular logic means having an assumption which is actually the conclusion of some latter step.)

A better criticism of his argument, instead of spouting high-sounding but incorrect phrases, might refer to the Liar Paradox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar_paradox), or might point out that the whole argument is non-sensical because it argues about imaginary entities such as immovable objects, omnipotent beings, and god.

Because the foolishness of

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." - 1 Corinthians 1:25, the Infallible Holy Word of God.

So according to you God is both foolish and weak? just less so than man?

This paradoss was revolved

This paradoss was revolved may years ago.
Yes God can create a Rock so havy then even he can't lift.
Then he go and lit it.
Being omnipotent defy logic by definition.

Btw I'm an atheis :D

That resolves nothing. It

That resolves nothing. It creates another paradox. If he made the rock so heavy that he couldn't lift it, then why can he suddenly lift it? This isn't making something so heavy you can't lift it; the only way to accomplish this is to pretend you can't lift it. Pretendy funtimes aren't part of the equation.

A paradox is based on logic.

A paradox is based on logic. He said "Being omnipotent defy logic by definition." The very fact that he is omnipotent is illogical, thus discarding the idea of paradoxes, and instead introducing the idea of faith. He created logic and can therefore deny it. if we accept he is omnipotent, which you initial assumption was, then he can indeed create a rock he can't lift it, and then lift it.

Logical Error

I know a lot of people that can prove 1=0 and that 2=1. It's a logical error, a joke, if you will. Everyone knows (or should know) that falsity of such logic, and the reason it's funny is because it's difficult to disprove.

It's not a logical error,

It's not a logical error, it's an illegal operation. I've seen both of those "proofs" and they involve dividing by 0 somewhere in there. And even if you decide to use limits, you simply prove that infinity=infinity.

Chuck Norris can divide by

Chuck Norris can divide by zero

you have no friends

you know no one who can PROVE 1=0 and 2=1...I've seen these faulty proofs...there is always a division by zero. Please don't spread ignorance, its contagious

Boo! Go and read a book

Boo! Go and read a book instead of clogging up the internet.

And your comment isn't

And your comment isn't clogging up the internet? You realize it had no real reason to be made right?

Not a Valid Statement

Its fun do think about, but remember that you cannot use this "idea" as proof against God's existence until you can prove that this kind of paradox exists. And since most of what we think infinity is cannot be tested at the current time, it cannot be submitted as proof against anything. Just as I have heard many people say before, one single discovery could come up and change our idea of infinity completely.

Haha retard, Darwin may be

Haha retard,
Darwin may be dead but God never existed.
So i think Darwin wins this round my friend.

uhhh....

'evolve past death'?

what are you talking about?

TRANSHUMANITY, MY FRIEND!!!

TRANSHUMANITY, MY FRIEND!!! COME JOIN ME IN ANDROID UTOOOOOPIA!!!

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